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	<title>Comments on: Value Added: The New State Metric for Measuring Student Progress</title>
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	<link>http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/</link>
	<description>brought to you by Ideas Unleashed!</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kate Bunsey</title>
		<link>http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-1344</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Bunsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 00:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-1344</guid>
		<description>I hope that I'm hearing Ryan correctly when I say that I agree, at least to some extent. 

In the United States we try to do what much of the world is not doing - Educate Everyone - everyone gets a free and appropriate education, while other countries either have homogenous populations, no formal system of schooling, or send kids off to the fields or factories or wherever those who don't make the intelligence bar are sent. And this surely makes our job much different, perhaps even more difficult, and perhaps even less effective when compared to countries that have different practices, stemming from different beliefs or are working with a different population of students than we have here in the United States.     

I believe that this is frustrating and there are other teachers who feel the special education laws protect some, while restricting, or even hurting others. 

I also believe that there are other teachers and parents who can't even imagine a United States without those very laws that were intended to assist and support, the laws that provide opportunities to children and families that in other parts of the world or in past practices in our country would have gone without any kind of formal education. I am one of those people. 

While I believe in the value of our public education setting, I have my own frustrations. I’d have to wear rose-colored glasses to not be frustrated! The difference is, though, Ryan, that I do not target or blame the students and families who I deem “lower” and uninterested. I realize, as I hope that you can come to realize, that as a public school employee in the United States of America, it is my responsibility to serve all of the students and all of the families, whether they want to be in school or not. 

I think it is important to examine the historical foundations of our educational system, the social and historical contexts that fostered changes, how we arrived here and what's next. 

The foundations of my public school work are based on the teachings of Thomas Jefferson, Horace Mann and John Dewey. Here’s another great site to explore http://www.pbs.org/onlyateacher/horace.html  

Yes, I am currently a public school teacher. With Gratitude, Kate Bunsey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope that I&#8217;m hearing Ryan correctly when I say that I agree, at least to some extent. </p>
<p>In the United States we try to do what much of the world is not doing - Educate Everyone - everyone gets a free and appropriate education, while other countries either have homogenous populations, no formal system of schooling, or send kids off to the fields or factories or wherever those who don&#8217;t make the intelligence bar are sent. And this surely makes our job much different, perhaps even more difficult, and perhaps even less effective when compared to countries that have different practices, stemming from different beliefs or are working with a different population of students than we have here in the United States.     </p>
<p>I believe that this is frustrating and there are other teachers who feel the special education laws protect some, while restricting, or even hurting others. </p>
<p>I also believe that there are other teachers and parents who can&#8217;t even imagine a United States without those very laws that were intended to assist and support, the laws that provide opportunities to children and families that in other parts of the world or in past practices in our country would have gone without any kind of formal education. I am one of those people. </p>
<p>While I believe in the value of our public education setting, I have my own frustrations. I’d have to wear rose-colored glasses to not be frustrated! The difference is, though, Ryan, that I do not target or blame the students and families who I deem “lower” and uninterested. I realize, as I hope that you can come to realize, that as a public school employee in the United States of America, it is my responsibility to serve all of the students and all of the families, whether they want to be in school or not. </p>
<p>I think it is important to examine the historical foundations of our educational system, the social and historical contexts that fostered changes, how we arrived here and what&#8217;s next. </p>
<p>The foundations of my public school work are based on the teachings of Thomas Jefferson, Horace Mann and John Dewey. Here’s another great site to explore <a href="http://www.pbs.org/onlyateacher/horace.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.pbs.org/onlyateacher/horace.html</a>  </p>
<p>Yes, I am currently a public school teacher. With Gratitude, Kate Bunsey</p>
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		<title>By: John Mullaney</title>
		<link>http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-1331</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mullaney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-1331</guid>
		<description>Dear Ryan
I do not teach at the present time, but I have taught in classrooms in the past.  As I see it, the purpose of this site is to share ideas and invite conversation about teaching.  There is a place for people to present ideas and invite comment about teaching.  I have spent many years in the developing world, where public education is not readily available to the general population.  One of the greatest things about the United States is the hope and belief that all Americans can and should have the right to a free education.  I have lived in "developing" countries, where the wealthy pay for their children to go to private schools, (typically run by church affiliated groups), and the public education is non functioning.  These are countries that sooner or later are wracked by political instability and unspeakable violence.  Thomas Jefferson articulated the importance between education and liberty.  For example:


"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384

There are several others that we could ponder. 

"A system of general instruction, which shall reach every description of our citizens from the richest to the poorest, as it was the earliest, so will it be the latest of all the public concerns in which I shall permit myself to take an interest." --Thomas Jefferson to Joseph C. Cabell, 1818. FE 10:102

"It is highly interesting to our country, and it is the duty of its functionaries, to provide that every citizen in it should receive an education proportioned to the condition and pursuits of his life." --Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1814. ME 19:213

"The mass of our citizens may be divided into two classes -- the laboring and the learned. The laboring will need the first grade of education to qualify them for their pursuits and duties; the learned will need it as a foundation for further acquirements." --Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1814. ME 19:213

For more check out the link:http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1350.htm

Ryan, your comments lead me to believe you see the students at "Them" and a sense that they are lazy and out to get you.  Wow.  That cannot be a satisfying place for you to be in as a teacher.  Do you have a place to talk with other teachers about your personal frustration with your own teaching?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Ryan<br />
I do not teach at the present time, but I have taught in classrooms in the past.  As I see it, the purpose of this site is to share ideas and invite conversation about teaching.  There is a place for people to present ideas and invite comment about teaching.  I have spent many years in the developing world, where public education is not readily available to the general population.  One of the greatest things about the United States is the hope and belief that all Americans can and should have the right to a free education.  I have lived in &#8220;developing&#8221; countries, where the wealthy pay for their children to go to private schools, (typically run by church affiliated groups), and the public education is non functioning.  These are countries that sooner or later are wracked by political instability and unspeakable violence.  Thomas Jefferson articulated the importance between education and liberty.  For example:</p>
<p>&#8220;If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.&#8221; &#8211;Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384</p>
<p>There are several others that we could ponder. </p>
<p>&#8220;A system of general instruction, which shall reach every description of our citizens from the richest to the poorest, as it was the earliest, so will it be the latest of all the public concerns in which I shall permit myself to take an interest.&#8221; &#8211;Thomas Jefferson to Joseph C. Cabell, 1818. FE 10:102</p>
<p>&#8220;It is highly interesting to our country, and it is the duty of its functionaries, to provide that every citizen in it should receive an education proportioned to the condition and pursuits of his life.&#8221; &#8211;Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1814. ME 19:213</p>
<p>&#8220;The mass of our citizens may be divided into two classes &#8212; the laboring and the learned. The laboring will need the first grade of education to qualify them for their pursuits and duties; the learned will need it as a foundation for further acquirements.&#8221; &#8211;Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1814. ME 19:213</p>
<p>For more check out the link:http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1350.htm</p>
<p>Ryan, your comments lead me to believe you see the students at &#8220;Them&#8221; and a sense that they are lazy and out to get you.  Wow.  That cannot be a satisfying place for you to be in as a teacher.  Do you have a place to talk with other teachers about your personal frustration with your own teaching?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-1318</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 19:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-1318</guid>
		<description>Yes I do think that trying to teach and reach the lower kids that don't want to be in school and who's parents don't care about their child's education is a waste of time.  These actions and this great philosophy comes at the cost of holding back the advancements of the students that want to be at school.  

As far as India and China, I wouldn't say they think it is a waste of time but I think the kids fortunate enough to go to school come from fairly wealthy families who cherish education.  Those who are not being educated are put to work, not forced to be in schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I do think that trying to teach and reach the lower kids that don&#8217;t want to be in school and who&#8217;s parents don&#8217;t care about their child&#8217;s education is a waste of time.  These actions and this great philosophy comes at the cost of holding back the advancements of the students that want to be at school.  </p>
<p>As far as India and China, I wouldn&#8217;t say they think it is a waste of time but I think the kids fortunate enough to go to school come from fairly wealthy families who cherish education.  Those who are not being educated are put to work, not forced to be in schools.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jaroscak</title>
		<link>http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-1308</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jaroscak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-1308</guid>
		<description>Ryan,

I am not sure what you are getting at.  Are you saying that we should have different curricula for students depending on ability?  Who benefits from a "different class?"  Are you certain that both India and China believe that attempting to reach all children, even "lower kids," is a "waste of time?"  Do you believe it to be a waste of time?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan,</p>
<p>I am not sure what you are getting at.  Are you saying that we should have different curricula for students depending on ability?  Who benefits from a &#8220;different class?&#8221;  Are you certain that both India and China believe that attempting to reach all children, even &#8220;lower kids,&#8221; is a &#8220;waste of time?&#8221;  Do you believe it to be a waste of time?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-1295</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-1295</guid>
		<description>Do you two teach or just try to philosophies about how to make education better?  Do you think India or China are forcing schools to teach the same curriculum to students with IQ's of 55 as well as students with 130?  Those countries don't waste their time on the lower kids. They allow their high students to excel. America requires that all students Succeed while in return they make all students fail.  The lower students tend to feel overwhelmed and give up.  The High students get bored and loose interest in the subjects.  You want to really allow America to excel and let our students obtain those scholarships in Math and Science?  Let them go as far as they can.  Let teachers push them to their limits. If teachers tried that to day 50% of the class would fail.  If students can't keep up then put them into a different class.  We can't do that though because the government says we have to teach certain topics.  

As for the Standford President, when was the last time he stepped into a classroom for longer than a week?  Yes students will give you their attention for a couple of days, maybe even a few weeks, but once they figure out they system most will try to challenge it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you two teach or just try to philosophies about how to make education better?  Do you think India or China are forcing schools to teach the same curriculum to students with IQ&#8217;s of 55 as well as students with 130?  Those countries don&#8217;t waste their time on the lower kids. They allow their high students to excel. America requires that all students Succeed while in return they make all students fail.  The lower students tend to feel overwhelmed and give up.  The High students get bored and loose interest in the subjects.  You want to really allow America to excel and let our students obtain those scholarships in Math and Science?  Let them go as far as they can.  Let teachers push them to their limits. If teachers tried that to day 50% of the class would fail.  If students can&#8217;t keep up then put them into a different class.  We can&#8217;t do that though because the government says we have to teach certain topics.  </p>
<p>As for the Standford President, when was the last time he stepped into a classroom for longer than a week?  Yes students will give you their attention for a couple of days, maybe even a few weeks, but once they figure out they system most will try to challenge it.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mullaney</title>
		<link>http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-757</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mullaney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 03:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-757</guid>
		<description>A few months ago, I had the great good fortune to attend a meeting sponsored by Philanthropy Roundtable that addressed the crisis in Science and Math education in K-12 environments.  http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/content.asp?contentid=524

I took notes from the opening speech, delivered by Dr. John Hennessey, President of Stanford University.  I am not sure how his remarks related to value added, but I think there is something there....

I share them with your for your thoughts and comments.


Philanthropy Roundtable  “Quantum Leaps – Improving Math and Science”
San Francisco, California 

Opening Speech 

Dr. John Hennessy, President of Stanford University

http://www.stanford.edu/dept/president/biography/

Dr. Hennesey referenced the book Rising Above the Gathering Storm, published by the National Academies http://www7.nationalacademies.org/gatheringstorm/   Dr. Hennessy referenced that report stating that the biggest challenge to American Education is improving the quality of science and technology teaching and preparing young people for the challenges that these disciplines invite in College, Graduate School and eventually for the American business sector..

The current situation is increasingly dangerous because of the decreasing number of engineering, science and mathematics degrees awarded each year to men and women who are U.S. citizens.  The majority are now awarded to students from overseas who return to their native countries, such as China, Southeast Asia and India.  The number of women and minorities represented in these fields is untolerably small.

Most universities with admit that over all American young people are not prepared for college and university work in mathematics and science.  Calculus and physics, once optional in the high school curriculum, are now essential for those who are even remotely interested in technology, engineering, physics or business.

For most students entering colleges and universities, basic proficiency in all subjects continues to decrease in general.  The most alarming drops are in math and sciences. Research has shown that teacher quality and preparation in the field is the most important predictor of quality teaching and learning.  Students with Advanced Placement (AP) courses in high schools generally compete well due to the extra level of rigor that the AP requires.  The AP also requires a minimal training for teachers to know their subject.

The majority of teachers in public schools are under-qualified to teach because they do not hold a degree with a major in the subject area.

 Another truly alarming fact is the number of students requiring remediation not only in science and math, but in English and reading.  This fact is reported in the work of Dr. Spellings, Chair of the Department of Education http://www.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/hiedfuture/reports/final-report.pdf

Graduation rates remain surprisingly low among students who enter college ill prepared for higher education.  Those who successfully complete degrees in math and science to not opt to pursue careers in public education. 

The challenge for K-12 education in the years ahead will be:

•	recruiting math and science teachers
•	providing intensive continung education for existing teachers
•	opening opportunities to bring teachers into colleges

The government should explore the following policy iniatives:
•	embark on a loan forgiveness program for those who complete college in science and math and enter the teaching profession. 
•	integrate new and innovative ways to present math and sciences into pedagogy using creative and enhanced web-based platforms.
Teachers on the K-12 level must be encourages to underscore the importance of group learning.  They must integrate blogging into classroom teaching and enhance online learning.  Science and engineering require group thinking and learning which is discouraged in current K-12 environments.

Finally, there is a need to establish a National framework for Science and Math education.  The tradition of local (State) control in the US is entrenched and presents and enormous struggles for those who attempt the undertake it.  But this is exactly where philanthropy has a role in the years ahead.  We must find new and creative ways to address this critical failure to provide American K-12 students with the most fundamental exposure to Science and Math.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few months ago, I had the great good fortune to attend a meeting sponsored by Philanthropy Roundtable that addressed the crisis in Science and Math education in K-12 environments.  <a href="http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/content.asp?contentid=524" rel="nofollow">http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/content.asp?contentid=524</a></p>
<p>I took notes from the opening speech, delivered by Dr. John Hennessey, President of Stanford University.  I am not sure how his remarks related to value added, but I think there is something there&#8230;.</p>
<p>I share them with your for your thoughts and comments.</p>
<p>Philanthropy Roundtable  “Quantum Leaps – Improving Math and Science”<br />
San Francisco, California </p>
<p>Opening Speech </p>
<p>Dr. John Hennessy, President of Stanford University</p>
<p><a href="http://www.stanford.edu/dept/president/biography/" rel="nofollow">http://www.stanford.edu/dept/president/biography/</a></p>
<p>Dr. Hennesey referenced the book Rising Above the Gathering Storm, published by the National Academies <a href="http://www7.nationalacademies.org/gatheringstorm/" rel="nofollow">http://www7.nationalacademies.org/gatheringstorm/</a>   Dr. Hennessy referenced that report stating that the biggest challenge to American Education is improving the quality of science and technology teaching and preparing young people for the challenges that these disciplines invite in College, Graduate School and eventually for the American business sector..</p>
<p>The current situation is increasingly dangerous because of the decreasing number of engineering, science and mathematics degrees awarded each year to men and women who are U.S. citizens.  The majority are now awarded to students from overseas who return to their native countries, such as China, Southeast Asia and India.  The number of women and minorities represented in these fields is untolerably small.</p>
<p>Most universities with admit that over all American young people are not prepared for college and university work in mathematics and science.  Calculus and physics, once optional in the high school curriculum, are now essential for those who are even remotely interested in technology, engineering, physics or business.</p>
<p>For most students entering colleges and universities, basic proficiency in all subjects continues to decrease in general.  The most alarming drops are in math and sciences. Research has shown that teacher quality and preparation in the field is the most important predictor of quality teaching and learning.  Students with Advanced Placement (AP) courses in high schools generally compete well due to the extra level of rigor that the AP requires.  The AP also requires a minimal training for teachers to know their subject.</p>
<p>The majority of teachers in public schools are under-qualified to teach because they do not hold a degree with a major in the subject area.</p>
<p> Another truly alarming fact is the number of students requiring remediation not only in science and math, but in English and reading.  This fact is reported in the work of Dr. Spellings, Chair of the Department of Education <a href="http://www.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/hiedfuture/reports/final-report.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/hiedfuture/reports/final-report.pdf</a></p>
<p>Graduation rates remain surprisingly low among students who enter college ill prepared for higher education.  Those who successfully complete degrees in math and science to not opt to pursue careers in public education. </p>
<p>The challenge for K-12 education in the years ahead will be:</p>
<p>•	recruiting math and science teachers<br />
•	providing intensive continung education for existing teachers<br />
•	opening opportunities to bring teachers into colleges</p>
<p>The government should explore the following policy iniatives:<br />
•	embark on a loan forgiveness program for those who complete college in science and math and enter the teaching profession.<br />
•	integrate new and innovative ways to present math and sciences into pedagogy using creative and enhanced web-based platforms.<br />
Teachers on the K-12 level must be encourages to underscore the importance of group learning.  They must integrate blogging into classroom teaching and enhance online learning.  Science and engineering require group thinking and learning which is discouraged in current K-12 environments.</p>
<p>Finally, there is a need to establish a National framework for Science and Math education.  The tradition of local (State) control in the US is entrenched and presents and enormous struggles for those who attempt the undertake it.  But this is exactly where philanthropy has a role in the years ahead.  We must find new and creative ways to address this critical failure to provide American K-12 students with the most fundamental exposure to Science and Math.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mullaney</title>
		<link>http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-625</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mullaney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerforleadership.org/blog/2007/04/23/value-added-the-new-state-metric-for-measuring-student-progress/#comment-625</guid>
		<description>Thanks Dan.  That is very helpful information.  On the community diaries site www.communitydiaries.org Ann Glass anwered the question in the same way.  It seems like a great program and worthy of support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dan.  That is very helpful information.  On the community diaries site <a href="http://www.communitydiaries.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.communitydiaries.org</a> Ann Glass anwered the question in the same way.  It seems like a great program and worthy of support.</p>
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